"You can't just focus on your own research here" - An interview with Livia Schäffler

Dr Livia Schäffler, Head of the Conservation Ecology Section at the LIB, has been researching nocturnal lemur species from the dry forests of western Madagascar for more than 20 years, two of which are on this list: Madame Berthe's mouse lemur, the smallest living primate in the world, has already been included in the Top 25 selection several times, while the southern giant mouse lemur is included for the first time. Both species were presented in more detail in the list by Livia Schäffler and their conservation status described. She has been back in Madagascar since mid-May and is continuing her research and conservation work in the Menabe Central region. In our interview, she talks about her work in this special place, the LIB's plans to expand biodiversity research there and, of course, the endemic lemurs:

Mrs Schäffler, you have been working in Madagascar for over 20 years. How did your work there begin?
In 2003, I did my first internship at the Kirindy research station of the German Primate Centre (DPZ) in Madagascar. I was immediately fascinated - by the nature, the animals, the people. Back in Germany, I completed my diploma thesis at the DPZ, focusing on behavioural ecology and population genetics. Then I wanted to get out of the lab and back into the forest. In view of the threat to biodiversity in Madagascar, I wanted to do research for species conservation instead of pure basic research. So I developed my own project for my doctorate and spent 15 months in the field recording the populations of nocturnal lemurs. Since 2022, I have been back on site regularly for several months.

You are researching one of the smallest primates in the world - the Madame Berthes mouse lemur. What is the situation with this species?
The situation is really critical. In our research area in the Menabe Central region, a forest area of around 65,000 hectares that has been formally protected by the Aire Protégée Menabe-Antimena (APMA) since 2015, there used to be stable populations in all areas. In the Kirindy forest, where the DPZ's research station is located, a population that had been regularly captured as part of long-term studies collapsed within a relatively short period of time. The last animal was caught in 2019, a frightening sight: emaciated and without fur. For several years, it was unclear whether the species had disappeared from its entire range within the APMA. Media reactions, for example in Le Monde, in 2022 already accused "Shame on Madagascar - the species is extinct". In this context, I have resumed my population survey of nocturnal lemurs.

What does this mean for your research?
We are trying to understand what happened. The first thing was to find out whether there are any populations of Madame Berthe's mouse lemur left. Fortunately, during my studies, which are currently funded by re:wild, I and my local field assistants were able to detect stable populations in the northern area of the APMA, but not in the Kirindy forest and forests further south. Statements about the disappearance of a species are not made lightly, you need data, lots of data. We have been searching every remaining forest fragment within the APMA since 2022 - closely meshed and with regular repetitions. There are hardly any population surveys that are carried out with such enormous effort. Once the remaining occurrences had been clarified, the question arose as to why the species had become locally extinct in some areas. Since 2024, we have been surveying the forest structure on a small scale along the transects where we record the nocturnal lemurs and also recording the microclimatic conditions. Together with my colleague Christoph Scherber, I am also analysing satellite images that allow us to make statements about the canopy density in the individual forest areas.

In a recent publication, two lemur species from Madagascar are among the 25 most endangered primates. Were you involved in the selection process?
The list is compiled every two years at the congress of the International Primatological Society. Which species are included often depends on who attends the conference and advocates for the species in question. So far, Peter Kappeler from the DPZ has advocated for Madame Berthe's mouse lemur based on his long-term local studies and my large-scale population surveys. I was subsequently asked to write the relevant chapter in the Top25 Most Endangered Primates Report - now for the third time. The next IPS Congress will take place in Antananarivo from 20 to 25 July 2025, where the new list of the 25 most endangered primates will again be determined - in view of my preliminary results, which I will present at the congress, I will almost certainly put my focus species on the list again. After the IPS Congress, I will be taking part in a workshop organised by colleagues from the University of Antananarivo for experts on mouse lemurs with by now around 20 described species.

Why is Madagascar such a special, but also difficult place for nature conservation?
Madagascar is a global biodiversity hotspot. Its biodiversity is exceptional worldwide, as is the proportion of endemic species. At the same time, the country is one of the poorest in the world. Education and income opportunities, healthcare and economic market structures are only available to a limited extent. The local people need the forest to survive - they use former forest areas to grow rice, peanuts or even manioc and maize - unfortunately not necessarily sustainably. However, it is not only subsistence farming that contributes to the exploitation of natural resources; man-made climate change, corruption and political instability do not make the situation any easier.

How do you deal with this?
With patience, respect - and long-term cooperation on eye-level. If we take the protection of these animals seriously, we have to take the needs of the local population into account. I have been working for many years in the villages in the north of the APMA, where Madame Berthes' mouse lemur still occurs. We work on site with locals, with whom I communicate in Malagasy, and the people have come to trust me. Intercultural relationships like this have to grow, it takes patience. If you just come, collect data for your own research and leave, you won't change anything.

And how do you involve the people in concrete terms?
At the research station, we employ local villagers as research assistants and train them as part of research projects. By paying them a regular salary, we secure the livelihood of their families in rural areas, who can then also provide their children with a regular diet and enable them to attend school. When we work in the villages, it is the rule to involve local labourers on a per-diem basis - even if it is only four to five euros, this is an important income. Apart from farming, there are few income opportunities. People are literally waiting for me to come back to them with my team of permanently employed field assistants. Due to a lack of income, there are many children who cannot go to school, although education is the basis for changing the situation on the ground. So I started to raise money with the small German-Malagasy NGO Nirina e.V. to enable village orphans school attendance. With this association, I also responded to the wishes of the local youth and, with the support of my field assistant, organised a small football tournament over the Christmas period in 2024, in which teams from several villages took part. This initially private commitment gave rise to a great research idea: Anyone who is committed to protecting the forest around the respective village can take part in future tournaments. As part of my current research stay, I am working with national and international stakeholders in the region to clarify how we can best utilise the local village youth for biodiversity monitoring, reforestation or fire control. This type of participation works - because it is orientated towards people's needs and is fun at the same time.

One of the LIB's more short-term goals is to do more research in Madagascar itself. Would that also be with a focus on primates?

In order to effectively contribute to the protection of the unique nature in the region, you also have to be politically and scientifically present. With this in mind, we at the LIB are currently expanding our cooperation with the DPZ at the Kirindy research station. Our research mandate is not limited to primate research. We want to investigate biodiversity change more comprehensively, understand the anthropogenic changes and develop solutions for the conservation of biodiversity. The natural and cultural environment offered by the Menabe Central region is ideal for this. So far, I have been conducting extensive research into how the lemur species and the forest structure develop over a longer period of time - which species spread or possibly die out. However, we will be expanding this research in the future. At the LIB, for example, we have great capacities in the field of insect research and can therefore close a gap that still exists here. In addition, we have expertise at the Centre for Biodiversity Monitoring and Conservation Research in the field of agroecological research and biodiversity recording using advanced methods such as metabarcoding.

The Top25 report also mentions that tourism can have a positive impact on the populations of endangered species. How?
Tourists bring in money. When nobody came during the coronavirus pandemic, protection collapsed: Patrols could no longer be financed and salaries had to be cut. During this period, the loss of forest due to illegal slash-and-burn practices increased enormously. People can only afford to preserve the forest if they also benefit economically from it. There are proposals to create ecotourism programmes in the villages in the north. That would be a great opportunity, as the majority of tourists come to Madagascar to experience the unique fauna. I also keep coming across travellers who come here to see Madame Berthes' mouse lemurs in particular. Nobody wants mass tourism here, but ecologically sustainable tourism could actually be an opportunity - as long as the money brought in by travellers actually benefits the population in rural areas.

The relocation of the animals to safer areas is also discussed as a possible measure in the study...
Theoretically yes - practically difficult. Authorisations, local acceptance, suitable new habitats - all of this is in question. You can't simply remove and relocate animals without considering the social and ecological consequences. I am currently trying to sensitise Malagasy partners on the ground.

Do you have any hope for Madame Berthe's mouse lemurs?
Yes. The few remaining populations are located in forests that are protected by traditional village communities of the Sakalava ethnic group. The people in the villages of Kiboy and Tsianaloka are committed to defending their forest against intruders who harm the forest or take wild animals - even with their bare hands if they have to. They are our best allies; the protection of biodiversity in the forest areas under their control, where sustainable use is permitted, actually works better than in the state-managed core zone of the protected area. If we support these people, the animals have a real chance.

What would be your wish for the future?
That we as researchers take responsibility - beyond data and scientific results. Nature conservation only works with the people on the ground. The LIB has a much broader perspective than traditional primate research. We can research biodiversity change in social spaces - and thus help shape sustainable solutions. Any effort in the field is worth it.